Curse

ginetti · May 12, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Why would anyone go necro as a primary, besides they like the look?

A Warrior/Necro is so much more hardcore.

Say you want to use swords, just put skills into swords and focus the rest on necro.

OR: just focus ALL on necro. I mean, what the hey, you got way better armor, and so what if you dont get some mana per death.

Or for that matter why not go Ele, then Necro?

I dont understand what the appeal of going necro first is.

BTW i am primary necro, only because i like the look of the class and the idea behind it, but i see no advantage to pick it as a primary statistically wise.

I mean, i seriously dont.

Someone please make me happy and show me the light.

Show me how a N/W is just as good, or not far off from a N/W or any other combo of N/?

Thank you
-frustrated necro lover

Xellos · May 12, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14

PVE wise, things die alot right? I mean, alot of mobs die in one instance right? Soul Reaping then makes some use.

PVP wise, this pretty much had alot of heated arguements back a few months ago. There wasn't an official winner, but your definately not on the wrong track.

Perishiko ReLLiK · May 12, 2005, 12:33 PM // 12:33

It's easy... more mana, and more mana regen for blood nukes. Guess it depends on your build/skills... anything can be good, or bad for that matter...

Jackell · May 12, 2005, 02:29 PM // 14:29

I have a N/W that I toy around with. However, I use swords, and that's it on the warrior side, so the higher energy of the necro primary is more important to my build.

Azreal911 · May 12, 2005, 04:47 PM // 16:47

I also mainly picked the necro cause they look sooo cool and dark, also i'm a Nine Inch Nails Fan and they have the perfect /dance routine for them! Also I like their life draining skills, I can heal myself up but at least it's hurting the enemy greatly also at the same time, it's more efficient to me than just healing yourself. And who can say no to exploding corpses? come on! that's soo cool!

Deadroot · May 12, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Its not a simple matter of which is better, there are so many ways to make a W/N or N/W that you really have to consider the build before thinking about which class you want as your primary. Warriors get better armor and the Strength tree, while Necros get more Energy/Energy Regain and Soul Reaping (which is just as useful in PvP).

Even beyond that is personal choice. Some may see that going W/N is better, but they may want the challenge of doing the same build as N/W...or they may just like the Necro look better.

I ran a N/W for a long time. She used an Axe, had a focus item instead of a shield, and was a better tank than many of the primary Warriors she went up against. I doubt she would have worked as a W/N, there just wouldn't have been enough Energy to sustain her.

Studio Ghibli · May 12, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

'cause a N/W has better energy bonuses than a W/N.

Vangor · May 12, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Warriors don't recieve the two pieces of armor possible for extra energy regeneration, so they regain energy half as fast as any class who cares to use this. As well, besides gladiator, recieve none of the direct energy maximum benefits of a necromancer's armor. Then, they are unable to use necromancy runes since it is no longer their primary class.

On the other side, you may always be in the heat of battle, require more warrior runes, and use energy just to give some drain heals.

That would really be the biggest dependency. Plus, head armor just to note is like having another rune only for your primary. So if you wanted to get some real curses and blood magic flowing, you could've crippled yourself.

As well, while Soul Reaping may not seem great at first glance, if you are a minion lover, especially with the spell that summons two, this attribute includes them, pets, spirits, and anything I might have missed. Getting 7 points into it isn't hard, and an extra 7 energy per one of their deaths is very effective at killing people, get two or three and you are full enough for a few spells.

Creed · May 12, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

People seem to think PvE necro primary is a good idea. I dont mean to be rude but you're wrong, plain and simple.

Necro gets, +x energy based on how much they have invested into soul reaping. Soul reaping actually has no skills of its own, unlike all other primary class skills, and when somthing is dead, generally speaking you no longer need energy. Of course in huge battles it'll help, but in those same huge battles so would having those stats in anything else.

Why not go Elm/Nec those extra same stats put into energy storage means you dont need extra energy off dead monsters you have that extra energy on you already.

The only real reason to choose it as a primary is to be more unique than the Warrior/monks or any other classes you see running around. Necro really arent picked that much, and for good reason it seems. (they are picked as a 2nd class quite often tho.)

Maybe if necros primary skill allowed them extra range with their spells? each stat meaning another foot or so it'd be good, while having no skills related to it, but then again the class is mostly reliant on touch spells, which means as a necro primary your taking your life into your own hands when you PvP.

I myself have a Necro primary simply because i've never ever, seen anyne use them effectivly. If Necros could summon undead without needing a corpse, this conversation would never happen, but due to the needed body, death pagic is effectivly nullified in P v P. (Death Nova would be too powerful then tho

)

Just remember, when your fighting as a Necro primary, that extra damage that warriors doing due to his strenght being high, or all that energy that Elementalist has while you're waiting for things to die, or those fractions of a secound the Mesmer is shaving off cast times to land their hexes first and destroy you, they're all balanced with you waiting for things to die to grab 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11 or 12 energy right? (If you put anything over 7 in this stat i hope you simply explode.)

DismalClown · May 12, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

For the cool look!

If your other class is mesmer than it really doesn’t matter unless you plan to use fast casting.

If your other class in warrior or ranger than you have to consider max energy and energy regain vs. armor and which one fits your play style better.

If your other class is monk but you don’t want to be the group babysitter and the main target, necro may be the way to go.

If your other class is elem I see no reason to pick necro as your primary other than the look.

Skyro · May 13, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

I'm playing a N/Mo minion master right now using the bone minions + death nova combo and I wouldn't trade soul reaping for energy storage or anything else. And whoever says necro primaries aren't good in PvE I can honestly say you must've never partied with me

.

And let me set everybody straight who makes the "death magic sucks because you need corpses" arguement. If you do death magic and ONLY use death magic and have a skill bar filled with all skills needing corpses then it is your own fault your build sucks because generally no good builds are so inflexible. It's like making a mesmer with nothing but hexes in your skill bar and saying mesmer's suck because they get owned by hex-removal spells. There is a reason you have a second class and death magic is only ONE ASPECT OF YOUR CHARACTER. If there is no corpses at the beginning of a PvP match then USE YOUR OTHER SKILLS. For instance my N/Mo is specced in protection prayers and I focus on protection buffs of my teammates while I wait for corpses.

Also realize that death magic's downside of needing corpses has an extreme upside that when corpses do appear they are very effective. If you get 1 corpse and animate bone minions, death nova them, and blow them up that is pretty much 50% of that opponent(s) life is gone. If you get 2 corpses for 4 minions, that is pretty much instant death barring any protection buffs. There are also ways to manipulate corpses, i.e. vengenance, which allows you to get 2 corpses for the price of one (in essence), significantly increasing the builds effectiveness.

Miths · May 13, 2005, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Have you seen a female necromancer in necrotic armor? That's reason enough

.

Actually I think I'm in the process of ending up playing my N/W pretty much as a pure necromancer with focus on blood and curses.
I did some arena PvP last night for the first time (not counting the forced match before post-searing), and my third group worked out really well - won ten matches in a row, which was quite a nice experience for a PvP noob (haven't done any in other games at all).

A "vampire" build with blood skills and a couple of sword skills did a decent job, but I couldn't help feel that I would have been a greater asset if I had replaced those two sword skills and perhaps one or two of the others with some nasty curses instead.
I love all the options you have in this game.

captainrad · May 13, 2005, 03:40 AM // 03:40

blood magic.

kuroyume · May 13, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

I got the game a few days ago and even before I got the game, I decided to be a Necro Prime. For me the idea of giving hurt and turn them into candy just seemed neat to me, not to mention cursing. I now have a Lvl 10 Necro/Monk with focus on Blood/Curse + support heal & Smiting.

grimmolly · May 13, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Because of runes, of course.

Ancient · May 13, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetti

A Warrior/Necro is so much more hardcore.

If you want to use a melee weapon for damage and have one or two minions out occasionally, then yes. I made one and was disappointed. A W/N falls flat on it's face as a caster due to lack of energy. You'll be less fragile due to your armor, but warriors don't do very well with secondary professions besides Monk and Ranger, i.e. they are too stupid to handle casting-heavy secondaries effectively.

Alot of the specialized warrior attacks and shouts work with adrenaline, so you can get by without the energy for the warrior side, but the necro skills will drain you constantly. Animate Bone Horror costs 15 energy to cast, and the first one will often die off before you can regen enough energy to cast it a second time. Energy doesn't increase with level, so if you're short on energy in pre-sear, don't expect it to improve, it only gets worse as you gain the higher-cost skills. Any other class can easily make use of the adrenaline-based skills from the warrior secondary, but it's not so easy vice-versa.

Necromancers are arguably the most energy dependant profession, so anything *but* warrior comes to mind when I think of primaries that will have good synergy with the necro secondary. Even R/Ns have a hard time keeping up with the high energy demands of the necromonger faith, but they get pets *and* minions to order around. Ranger is probably the lowest you would want to go in terms of energy pool to still support some limited usage of necro or elem skills, but warriors just barely cut it.

A N/W will not be as proficient with swords, axes, or hammers because they do not get the Strength attrib, which is where most of a warrior's base damage comes from. You will be missing out on some of the high-level bonuses from alot of warrior skills by not having Strength, so you have to utilize only the specialized weapon and general skills, but ignore any that are based off Strength.

A Necro is a caster class, which means more base energy and energy regen for their nukes and drains. Also as a necro, you get the Soul Reaping attrib, which adds energy for each mob slain. Not having access to that extra energy, energy you will need to summon many minions while still using your skills, will limit what you can do. Necros are weak against all attacks besides piercing, while warriors are stronger against all physical attacks, which include blunt, slashing, and piercing damage. Typically, you never want a caster secondary with a non-caster primary because they are dependant on an energy you may not have available to you unless you are also a caster primary.

I've found from experience that W/N's, W/El's, and W/Me's(to a lesser degree) suffer from the same lack of casting ability, all because the warrior primary doesn't support the energy needs of those secondaries very well. I suppose similar drawbacks could be mentioned for the reverse of those builds, just that you lack the armor and strength to go toe-to-toe with mobs. With only 20 energy and two regen pips, the best you can do is lead with a skill and use adrenaline only to fight while waiting for your energy to build back up to cast another.

Most W/*'s I've talked with about their builds are primarily just warriors that dabble in one attrib and a skill or two from their secondary. I guess that's how it should be, but I tend to use about a 4-4 or 5-3 split from my skillset on all my characters that are not warrior primary, and about 6-2 or 7-1 on my ones that are. I guess it really comes down to what you can make work, but a warrior primary/caster secondary is tough to make good use of when you can have low-cost damage prevention and healing skills from the Monk secondary or a pet that costs no energy to have with you and Troll Unguent to heal you up, in battle no less, for only 5 energy from the Ranger secondary.

Just my observation, not knocking anyone's build or anything. If someone has successfully harnessed the power of a W/N or W/E, I'd love to hear about it and how they ended up working their attribs and skillset. Apply flame as necessary...

Alcoy The Defiled · May 13, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Necro Primary is best for using death magic. This is because you do need the mana when something dies. People may not realize, but bone fiend and bone minions cost 25 energy each when casting each has only a 10 sec recast. You have to have that extra energy boost if you want to keep a large amount of minions going while still having the energy to heal them. Energy Storage is far better for a blood mage because runes are not important for that build because you can get +2 skill from a skill.

Cordub · May 13, 2005, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetti

Why would anyone go necro as a primary, besides they like the look?

A Warrior/Necro is so much more hardcore.

Say you want to use swords, just put skills into swords and focus the rest on necro.

OR: just focus ALL on necro. I mean, what the hey, you got way better armor, and so what if you dont get some mana per death.

Or for that matter why not go Ele, then Necro?

I dont understand what the appeal of going necro first is.

BTW i am primary necro, only because i like the look of the class and the idea behind it, but i see no advantage to pick it as a primary statistically wise.

I mean, i seriously dont.

Someone please make me happy and show me the light.

Show me how a N/W is just as good, or not far off from a N/W or any other combo of N/?

Thank you
-frustrated necro lover

Ok I may have repleyed in this thread before not sure I will look in a min. But I do know I have answered the question tons of time. Armor dont mean dick in the choice of N or W mains. See most Curses , Blood Magic , Deaht magic(damage spells) Ignore armor so any thing you fight has not armor pretty much. If you use Swords or Axes you can also cause a deep wound - 20% base life. So the reason to go Necro main is to get the energy boost cause if you think about it you have more armor then anything you fight because your spells ignore it. Thanks I will be here all day.

Cordub · May 13, 2005, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcoy The Defiled

Necro Primary is best for using death magic. This is because you do need the mana when something dies. People may not realize, but bone fiend and bone minions cost 25 energy each when casting each has only a 10 sec recast. You have to have that extra energy boost if you want to keep a large amount of minions going while still having the energy to heal them. Energy Storage is far better for a blood mage because runes are not important for that build because you can get +2 skill from a skill.

This is one of the most incorrect statements I have ever read. Do a little more research on the class please, we dont have energy storage thats a Elemantalist.

Midnight Scorpion · May 13, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

I believe he was talking about if N was his secondary, in refutation of the guy who said N primary was useless.

My reasons? Best caster armor, energy regen. And the mohawk.